Thursday, August 11, 2005

Tough issues

I have been reading news accounts, blogs and magazines, trying to figure out this whole disengagement thing. I have listened to speeches and read halachik authorities on it. And now, a week before it is scheduled, I have figured out where I stand.

I am terribly sad for the jews who live in Gaza. I think moving them is incredibly cruel, and I wish there was a way for them not to have their lives disrupted by the very government that encouraged them to move there in the first place.

But you can count me on the pro-disengagement side of the fence.

There are a lot of very legitimate reasons to be against it, but here are the facts. There are a ton more arabs in the area than jews, and patrolling the area with IDF soldiers is costly in multiple respects. As long as we are occupying them, we can only fight back with one hand tied behind our backs.

Let them have their country, and let them know that they are now responsible for themselves. That they will face the full force of Israeli wrath and military strength should they take this gift and and abuse it.

Sharon fought for these lands. He knows firsthand what it means to give them away. I don'trust him, but I trust a man in his position more than someone who never went to war, who never fought. You can spin this any number of ways, and I choose to spin it this way. Walking away is a sign of strength.

I wish the Israeli government would go ahead and annex land captured in '67 to Israel proper as part of this pullout. It would make me feel like we are getting something for this withdrawl.


Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think your RockofGalilee brother might disown you...

August 11, 2005 10:55 AM  
Blogger Air Time said...

actually, it is my twoaressister who will disown me.

August 11, 2005 11:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow...I always thought I was anti thru and thru...but you actually make perfect sense.Now they have no excuse 2 attack us,and when they do,we can whupp some ass!!

August 11, 2005 11:15 AM  
Blogger Just Passing Through said...

Air, I'm still on the fence. I admit that you present a convincing and clear-cut argument, but I still think I feel that it's rewarding terror. With these cultures, what may be a logical strategic move, will just backfire when it's determines as weakness. Plus, I honestly don't feel that we'll have the spine to back our threats of reprisals should they continue to attack once we're out.

August 11, 2005 12:22 PM  
Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

Air, right on all accounts. You know what one of Israel's biggest problem? They don't know how to act like conquerers. They won the land fair and squate. We need to quit apologizing for being so damn awesome and take what's rightfully awesome. I've been thinking along your lines since this process started. Think about it this way. As long as there's Israel in there, the Pals can gain some international support with calling us occupiers. However, once Gaza, the epicenter of terror for over 10 years, becomes sovereign, there's no excuses. Also, Hamas is a internationally categorized terrorist group. As part of a sovereign state, they would be classified as a terrorist state. Then, when one little teeny rocket lands in Israel lands, it's another country attacking us. Bye-bye Pals. Better luck next time. It's time to kick some major ass and get it all back.

August 11, 2005 12:54 PM  
Blogger O's fan said...

OC, I don't know if you saw but the Palestinians filed a doc in the UN stating that as long as Israel has military control, it's still occupied. I haven't heard anything since they filed it, but that's them providing themselves with another excuse not to stop terror.

August 11, 2005 1:09 PM  
Blogger Chaim said...

Air, you do make a very good points, but I'm still staying Blorange.

If this was the only land they wanted and after this they were swearing up and down, they'd be content, and able to live peacefully next to us. Then Id be all for it, but we both know that this isn't the end. They are already saying things like "This just has to be the beginning" and "more land must be given" We all know what they want and it's half of Jerusalem. Will you still be for disengaging when we are disengaging from Jerusalem?

August 11, 2005 2:03 PM  
Blogger Air Time said...

No. And I think you are misreading them if you think they only want half of Jerusalem.

August 11, 2005 2:06 PM  
Blogger Chaim said...

Well, ya... I mean publicly that's as far as their demands go. I'm not a fool, I know privately, they don't want Israel there at all.

August 11, 2005 2:11 PM  
Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

o's, I'm not talking about the stupid, pathetic, and useless UN. I'm talking about simple international law. As long as we're out of there, and they do what I predict they're going to do, it's all good.
Listen, Life, I'll tell you right now. If there is one more disengagement, I'll buy an orange wardrobe and be at every protest there is.
But, fencing off Jerusalem is not disengaging. We're cutting off some Pals. Nobody's giving them half of J. Nobody's getting thrown out of their home. There's not one Jew who will be cut off from Jer. Some idiot got some brain-dead to cry this as another disengagement. It's no different than the rest of the security barriers being built.

August 11, 2005 2:55 PM  
Blogger macabee said...


I agree with your assessment with one caveat. I think Israel should place land mines in each of the Gaza communities being returned.

Israel should offer the Palestinians a map with all the mines laid out after 10 years of no terrorist attack. Israel should walk away from Gaza, knowing that the communities are no man's land. If the Palestinians truly are peaceful then in 10 years it will all their own land, they've waited 38 years they can wait a few more years. If not the Jews can move back in.

Or else we can do what the Americans did in the 1800s, round up all the natives, kill some and the rest leave in a reservation with some booze and a casino.

August 11, 2005 5:50 PM  
Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

Well, the Pals already have a casino, so...

August 12, 2005 3:16 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

But they "don't drink" booze...

August 12, 2005 3:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

at, i am glad to see some rational thought in the mo crowd. ususally what you get, here and in israel, is knee-jerk right-wingism.
you go, girl!

August 15, 2005 2:42 AM  
Blogger rockofgalilee said...


From one perspective you are correct, there are very few things that can be done with the Gaza strip.

My personal belief is that Egypt should be forced to take it instead of giving it autonomy.

The problem with making them a country and then making them face the full might of the Israeli army is that it will never happen. They will get international support and say that it is extremist terrorists that are doing it not the official PA. We don't bomb Beirut everytime the Hizballah sends rockets my way. Lebanon is an autonomous country.

What we are doing i inviting them to continue shooting rockets at us, because we didn't get anything in return. We are telling them, shoot rockets at us and we are strong enough to retreat.

I don't see them being convinced by this move to stop shooting rockets our way.

August 15, 2005 4:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

at, i am glad you have come around to angry anons way of thinking. i always knew there was hope for you.

mac, you are rabid.

love to all.

August 15, 2005 4:30 AM  
Blogger Air Time said...

Anon -

FYI Air Time is male.

Veev, who no longer posts here, is female.

August 15, 2005 9:57 AM  
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