Wednesday, May 24, 2006

Mashiach (A Religious MEME)

I had a disturbing conversation about Mashiach the other day and I was wondering if our fellow bloggers could help me out. Based on what you've read or learned from others, what do you think about Mashiach? Please answer the following questions:

1. How will he arrive?
2. Under what global circumstances will he arrive?
3. Will everyone believe in him?
4. How will we all go to Israel, or will we?
5. Will all our enemies be destroyed?
6. Will a lot of us die in the process?
7. What about revival of the dead?
8. Will we still have to work?
9. When Mashiach (who is human) dies, who will be our leader?
10.Will there be a King of Israel, a Beit HaMikdash, and a Sanhedrin?

Someone told me that Mashiach is a myth, and that my own Mashiach is my Aliyah. Huh? Please help.

20 Comments:

Anonymous Keglavithcher Rav said...

I am pretty sure you have heard answers to most of these.
For most of them there is discusions and difference of opinions.
Myth? Mashaich is one of the basis of our religion. Mth is Apikurses.

May 24, 2006 2:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

An excellent resource for these questions is a book distributed by Feldheim called On Eagles Wings:

http://www.feldheim.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=1-56871-214-6&type=store&category=search

Vry thorough, yet user friendly, it reviews the various positions on these issues.

May 24, 2006 2:51 PM  
Blogger Shifra said...

My youngest asks me nearly all these questions at least twice a week before bed.

She also includes:
Will techas ha'matisim be then? Will our cat Maxie come back?

May 24, 2006 3:45 PM  
Blogger Veev said...

And what do you tell her?

May 24, 2006 5:59 PM  
Blogger Shifra said...

It's very hard to know what to tell her.

I've heard a lot of different things and I don't always know what's true.

I have heard that when the true moshiach comes everyone will know and accept him. I tell her that.

As for circumstances I was told that he will either come when am yisroel does teshuva or is just mired in sin and requires divine intervention.
I tell her that too.

My husband said that some opinions in the gemarah state that the life will go on as normal except that we will be ruled by a jewish king/govt.

Then I worry that they will bring back all those horrible punishments- stoning? whipping? lord I hope not.
I keep that to myself.

She was told in school that the bad people will die and the good ones will be taken to Israel. That worries her to so I tell her she's one of the good people- which is true, she's a good kid.

Lastly I tell her Maxie will always live on in our memories.

It's funny that kids spend a lot of time thinking and hearing about moshiach whereas adults hardly talk about it all. Maybe that's why my information on the subject is stuck at a ten year old level.

PS
That Aliyah = moshiach business sounds like some new-agey nonsense I wouldn't think too much about it.

May 24, 2006 9:49 PM  
Blogger Veev said...

Thanks. My knowledge is also based on my elementary school education.

May 24, 2006 10:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Does it really matter?
I mean really.

Who gives a damn?

May 25, 2006 3:51 AM  
Blogger Veev said...

Clearly, Shifra's daughter and I care.

May 25, 2006 8:58 AM  
Blogger Just Passing Through said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

May 25, 2006 10:10 AM  
Blogger Just Passing Through said...

Hey Veev. Hope you're having fun packing.

Like most of us, my perceptions are infuenced my my elementary school 'education'. All those strories are just so nice, aren't they?

1. How will he arrive?

I figure he'll show up amongst some sort of global upheaval and the worlds' attentions will be on him as a result.

2. Under what global circumstances will he arrive?

see above. Whether its a war, epidemic, catastrophe or not is anyone's guess. I assume it's also possible that he can come without all that too.

3. Will everyone believe in him?

I think that's one of the precept's that would be required to prove himself

4. How will we all go to Israel, or will we?

I always thought it cute when we learned that we'll go on 'the wings of eagles'. Of couse to be that's obviously referring to airplanes. Then again, you will probably have people insisting that if it says 'wings of eagles', then it has to be literally so (there's a funny visual). Whether we'll all go is another interesting point. We were always taught so but I wonder. Back when Ezra led the Jews back to EY, the Jews of the time were strongly criticized since the majority opted to remain in galus. I guess they were comfortable. Sound familiar? Have the Jews aven been as comfortable as they are now? Why do we assume that all of a sudden, because moshiach is here that eveyone will pick up and leave? Of course everyone says so, but even today, when anyone is free to go and settle, most again opt to remain (you guys being exceptions of course!). Do people think that when moshiach comes and 'everyone goes' that the laws of economics won't apply anymore? Just imagine what it will cost to buy a house!! Unless the global calamity, if it were to be that way, was such that every Jew will want or be forced to move...

5. Will all our enemies be destroyed?

don't know. Destroyed, or suddenly they see that there's one God and we're the chosen ones? Maybe then we just won't have enemies anymore.

6. Will a lot of us die in the process?

I sure as hell hope not. If that's the case, my chances aren't so great.

7. What about revival of the dead?

That's a toughie. I think there are various opinions on whether that will happen or not. While it is one of the Rambam's ikkarim, I think it's still argued. I may be totally off on this though.

8. Will we still have to work?

outside what we were always told as kids, I think most agree that the laws of nature will still apply. I assume we will still need to work for food. We can always wish though!

9. When Mashiach (who is human) dies, who will be our leader?

not sure. I figure it won't be patrilineal like the chassidim of today!

10.Will there be a King of Israel, a Beit HaMikdash, and a Sanhedrin?

I think so.

May 25, 2006 10:13 AM  
Blogger Veev said...

Thanks, JPT. You love me...

May 25, 2006 5:01 PM  
Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

Those are such hard questions since there are so many different and contradicting theories. I don't even want to go through them all. When I was a kid, the way it was described to me in school, it made me think that when Mashiach comes all our modern technology will dissapear, and we'll go back to how things were when the 2nd Beit Ha'Mikdash was still standing. No more TV. No more microwave. No more computer. I still picture it in my head that way. I just can't imagine a Beit Ha'Mikdash with a wireless internet connection, ya know?

While I don't believe your making Aliyah is some sort of Mashiach, we are told, and we read it at every Pesach Seder that this Galut that we are in is unique because we are the ones who can bring an end to it. We are commanded to go back to the land of Israel. I believe by being here, you are taking a big part in our preparation for Mashiach. We setting up the land and the country for the Opening Night curtain call. Who knows how Mashiach is coming. Who knows who it's going to be. (Are we even going to believe him when he tells us that's who he is?!? In the day and age of cynicism and skepticism, what if we lock the guy up in a loony bin for claiming he's Mashiach?!? Maybe, that's going to be part of the miracle, ya know? That we're going to believe him when he lets us know.) Who knows when or why he'll come. But, I do know this. I'd rather be in Eretz Yisroel, than any other place, when the curtain goes up.
-OC

May 26, 2006 8:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

oc,
im sure that mashiach can handle jews being outside of israel. after all, she will have solved bigger problems.

May 26, 2006 9:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

and where do you get these pesach ideas about we being able to bring mashiach just by showing up in the middle east?
more zionist kool-aid.

May 26, 2006 9:12 AM  
Blogger da shevster said...

i am mashiach. dont tell anyone, im keeping it a secret

May 26, 2006 6:24 PM  
Blogger rockofgalilee said...

I posted my answers on my blog

May 29, 2006 6:04 AM  
Anonymous The Shver said...

I believe that we all need to do our part to bring Mashiach; let Hashem handle the details. We need to believe in the existence and future revelation of Mashiach - that is a fundamental of our faith. And...we need to lay the groundwork for Mashiach by living our lives as Hashem has commanded, then letting Him handle the rest. By committing, in the most concrete way, to both Eretz Yisrael and to your life-style, you and Air have shown your faith in all the ideals you have internalized. I guess the "roots" have finally turned into the real "wings" and you are soaring on them above us all. Hope we can all join you soon "on the mountain!"

June 05, 2006 4:36 PM  
Blogger Veev said...

Thanks, my Abba!!

June 08, 2006 9:33 PM  
Blogger AMSHINOVER said...

1. How will he arrive?

late as we can see

2. Under what global circumstances will he arrive?

a mandate from the UN

3. Will everyone believe in him?

if you are a zionist you already do

4. How will we all go to Israel, or will we?

thats up to the individual(you have chosen wisely)

5. Will all our enemies be destroyed?

say the mi'shabaracha for the IDF

6. Will a lot of us die in the process?
"nothing, not even mosiach is worth one drop of jewish blood"
- daughter of the rizahner rebbe
7. What about revival of the dead?

who was more dead than we, & who has had a greater revival then us?

8. Will we still have to work?

have you been to a kollel Ezras Torah in jerusalem?

9. When Mashiach (who is human) dies, who will be our leader?

mork from ORK

10.Will there be a King of Israel, a Beit HaMikdash, and a Sanhedrin?

if you build it....

June 15, 2006 6:15 PM  
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February 15, 2007 6:39 AM  

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